Planes flying overhead

[H2OSeekers]

Hey! Who say pigs don't fly? Haven't you see the TV advertisement (Airpork). They can fly and poo all the way from Australia to Singapore.   

[gwen]

 

[Browneyez]

Hi all, we have also recently moved into Punggol and we absolutely love the place.

But really I have to bring this thread up again as the planes are getting from bad to worse. I noticed that even weekends nowadays they will be flying their planes??!!??

I am sorry i sounds a bit upset here, but is there any venue we can highlight...at least bring to a consensus that flying be minimised at night and during weekends?


Upset resident @ Punggol

[Serene]

Think there is some notice about weekend flying recently. Can check at the notice board at your lift landing..

[xrbeast]

I think Punggol is a Pig-farm area before, so I'm not sure whether people from other estates will think we are one of the under-developed estate. (like frog in the well)

Maybe the plane owners are the former pig farm owners. Made so much money from their previous trade, that can buy plane and irritate the residents.... 

i hate to tell you have a portion of ownership in singapore's military planes. i presume that you are a singaporean and u pay income tax right ? and singapore has her own defense budget and that comes from the income tax you pay and singapore uses those money to buy miliatary planes.. So maybe u are also a former pig farm owner which i think there's nothing to be ashame of.

[tiong]

BAD NEWS!!
The new F15 RSAF brought are going to be based in paya lebar air base in 2010. the noise is more than double from the new F15 than the F5 which we see them flying now!!
This is a lousy estate to be in! WHAT PUNGGOL 21... those new BTO flat buyer still in the dark. Just like me, if i know the noise problem I will not move into punggol. Use to live in Tampines, no aircraft noise. I will sell my flat in a year time and move back to tampines.
NO use complain to MP, she only forward your mail to MINDEF and MINDEF will reply u "bla bla bla.... we are sry..the plan still need to fly". Wait till the next election come, if this problem really become a hot topic than u see how our MP will react. I hope Miss MP realized this is a real concern for punggol residents, you just need to do a search in this forum n will know how many residents posed.

[crazecatz]

BAD NEWS!!
The new F15 RSAF brought are going to be based in paya lebar air base in 2010. the noise is more than double from the new F15 than the F5 which we see them flying now!!
This is a lousy estate to be in! WHAT PUNGGOL 21... those new BTO flat buyer still in the dark. Just like me, if i know the noise problem I will not move into punggol. Use to live in Tampines, no aircraft noise. I will sell my flat in a year time and move back to tampines.
NO use complain to MP, she only forward your mail to MINDEF and MINDEF will reply u "bla bla bla.... we are sry..the plan still need to fly". Wait till the next election come, if this problem really become a hot topic than u see how our MP will react. I hope Miss MP realized this is a real concern for punggol residents, you just need to do a search in this forum n will know how many residents posed.

planes flying day/night
irresponsible neighbour above my unit letting their kids stomping at 11pm everyday,
kids shouting foul words at street soccer cage,
construction work up to 9pm till Sat,
unit above me let their socks dripping wet on my laundry,
dogs owners letting their dogs bark nonstop

...and i thought with advanced education, we are supposed to be more 'civilised'?? guess staying at kampung are probably better

[flutey]

People living in Hougang area are so used to it, that when I moved to Punggol, I would say what noise each time my wife complained about the plane. So used to it, I don't really notice it much. Numb cos been hearing it since birth

[fashion]

even how nice the so-called Riverfront Housing, horse riding by the sea-side, alfresco dining by the sunset, all are bull-shit

with poor air quality and air plane noise are still unavoidable pollution.

[LIOW]

In long term, the noise pollution from the planes will be harmful to our health. In 'Fengshui' they called it : 音煞 (Ying Sha). I'm going to shift out from Punggol house in two months time. Just want to share what I have read from the 'Fengshui' books.

[ahfu]

I have been observing that RSAF  Hercules
propeller planes have been  circling way too low over
HDB flats at Punggol.

Has anyone written to RSAF about it.

Anyway I will proceed to seek their views about
our concern.

[EdLee]

Sometimes, I wonder if I should cringe and cry or just break out in laughters. I assume that most of the complainants belong to the category of young parents/couples based on what I read.

1. Paya Lebar Airbase - Built in 1955, by now it is 55 years old. It was converted into a military airport for God knows how long. Talk about the air force, PLAB instantly comes to mind. If you haven't heard of PLAB, I really wonder which cave you came out from.

2. Seletar Airport - This airport was built in 1928, this airport is even older at 82 years old. Once serving as an important base for foreign air forces such as New Zealand and Britain, it has an illustrious heritage.

3. Older than you are - Based on the contents being shared about marriage and young children, it's reasonable to conclude that the most vocal complainants belong to the younger generation. Both airports has a total age of 137 years of history and even if taking them apart, their respective individual age is probably higher than some of the complainants here. (Look, I am trying to be diplomatic. I still refuse to use the word - whiner - as yet.)

4. Oblivious or ignorance? - If you're someone born in 1960s or 1970s and beyond, I fail to comprehend your lack of awareness about the airport locations and air traffic. No doubt, air traffic and noise may change depending on the aircraft types and usage. Still, there will be noise anywhere near to the airports. That's basically, common sense. If you have bought a unit in the neighbourhood but yet didn't know about the airports or air traffic for that matter... I dare say, that's pretty much your own fault for buying into the HDB marketing chants (what some of you claimed as bullshit) rather than do some realistic study into the area. You can't exactly penalize it on any organizations or parties. Nobody pointed a gun at your head that you must buy a unit there.

5. National Security is wrong? - I hate to use this term but I think some complainants are not only getting selfish, but also unreasonable. Given a choice, I much rather hear the noise of our own RSAF jets flying over than an enemy's jet in our airspace. Rest assure, your baby and you will not be in bed. Be thankful you are not in some refugee camps by then. How many of you are aware of a massive Msia/Indon airdrop exercise on the eve of our NDP in the 1990s, barely 20km away from us, sparking an unprecedented mobilization of our NSman? Don't know? Yes, continue to be delusional within the confines of your 4 walls.

6. How low is too low? - Is anybody here qualified enough to tell us, just how low is too low? Just because you hate the sound of it? There is a specified height for all aircrafts, regardless military or civil. Even holding points have their own distinctive flight level which is strictly enforced. And the closer you get to the airports, the lower the aircrafts will be in preparation for their final approach to the runways.

7. Looking for scapegoats? - Very strangely, we've a ton of folks complaining about RSAF jets but nobody really gives a dime about cars with illegally modified exhausts that some of you are proudly parking in the MSCP. Military activities are necessary to safeguard our pathetically small island-state. What do the car exhausts do? Nobody's complaining about the exhaust noise? Nobody's complaining about the fumes? Do some of you not contribute to the noise pollution too? What if someone knocks on your door one day and tells you your child with a persistent crying problem is too noisy for the neighbours? Are you going to move away? Before we start pointing fingers again, do the noises YOU generate necessary for others?

It's more evident that Punggol residents are earning themselves the reputation of the Whiners Estate. Many of these issues were already present before the plans to develop Punggol were even formalized. In one of the points above, if you had been too gullible to marketing gimmicks, who can you really blame?

And please, I don't work for RSAF. Neither do I work for any stat boards or Government department. I'm just a HDB dweller like everyone of you. Let's stop being unreasonable. I know some of you are frustrated with it, but it appeared to me complaints are loudest in Punggol. Other neighbourhoods are also facing the same problems. Jets taking off from Tengah Airbase can be heard in West Coast, Jurong and even as far as Woodlands. In Woodlands and Yishun, helicopters can be heard from nearby Sembawang Airbase. If you think those in rich communities are any better, training aircrafts from Seletar Airport can be heard flying overhead from Woodlands, Thomson, Bukit Timah and Choa Chu Kang area. Tell me seriously, where in Singapore there's isn't aircraft noises? Even the ultra-rich communities in Sentosa Cove are not spared since the flight path civil helicopters is along the perimeter of the entire Singapore's coastline.

Take a minute, sit on your couch, chill out and think about it. Stop complaining.

Talking about taxpayer's monies etc is just totally irrelevant. If you're still living in the times of WW2, I love to see how you like to complain to the Japanese that their music and tanks are too noisy.

[basilleaf]

Bravo!  Well said 
I dont work for the RSAF too.  I'm just a SAHM so I ought to complain more.  But the non-stop drilling and piling that's going on in this estate drives me up the wall more so than the flying noise, which is at most intermittent.  I did better shut up or someone will post an even longer letter! 

[tp@punggol]

Basilleaf, alamak I think I better make this very short.

You know lah Singaporeans only like to complain, like to " Q" up and also " Kiasu " right 

When my Singaporean friends went to Taiwan for holiday, You know what the Taiwanese told my Singaporean friends. 

Alamak they said, " when Taiwanese are not happy, they dont complain, they fight, you know they also fought  in Parliament. Shameful lah right 

So complain also OK lah right ?? fighting is illegal, police catch you go to jail.

[limweech]

There is another thread, http://www.punggol.sg/forum/community_issues/aircraft_noise-t6583.0.html which is related to aircraft noise.

EdLee; your points are well presented, and has its charms. However, even if you are 100% correct, your points still do not invalidate the viewpoints and sentiments of other residents. Take the fable of the elephant and blind men
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant ; each blind man experience a different part of the elephant, and comes away with a different experience, and although each blind man is correct, none agrees with the others.

I would like to provide a bit of balance, and present counter arguments, i.e. the other side of the coin,

You fault buyers of HDB flats in Punggol, and subsequent complainants of aircraft noise with ignorance of airbase locations and flight paths, and insufficient due diligence; essentially caveat emptor or "buyers beware". However, HDB is selling (or leasing) a property; presumably fit for people to live in, to bring up children etc. The property needs to be fit for the purpose. What can be done? Perhaps double pane, instead of single pane windows should have been used, especially for units with full length windows. Perhaps additional sound proofing is required. I don't know. However, as it is, HDB may have sold a defective product, that is not fit for its intended use. Perhaps parts of Punggol 21 should not be zoned residential at all.

Regarding the "National Security" argument, I do not remember anyone arguing in this forum that it is invalid. However, let's not swing to the other extreme, and turn it into FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
There are plenty of NSMen and their families in Punggol. We are all doing our part helping to defend the country. I am curious as to why you are dressing down residents who are simply making known their sentiments? The previous posts complaining about the noise are written in a manner that is cranky, yes, quite a number of them. malicious, no.

Regarding "How low is too low?", rules are set by people, people can and do make mistakes. If a resident think that a propeller plane may be flying too low, it is logical, and perhaps a duty to send feedback. If it is possible for the plane to fly higher, if it is safer, and if it is less noisy, the question why not fly higher needs to be asked of the correct people. If the time comes when a resident, and in particular, Singaporeans, cannot ask about the planes, cannot complain about the noise, I will then wonder if the country is worth defending.

EdLee, I read the thrust of your message as life is tough, suck it up. In response,
I would like to share, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-bjOJzB7LY  
Adora Svitak: What adults can learn from kids